This is a collection of messages about the Band-in-a-Box software. ================================================================== >From uucp Tue Jan 9 14:24 EST 1990 >From love Tue Jan 9 14:23 EST 1990 remote from mhuxo Fellow MIDIots... A brief rave over a newly released product called "Band-in-a-Box" It uses artificial intelligence to generate *SUPER* MIDI bass, drums & piano chord accomp. for any tune - you provide the chord names, and frame the song. As the lit. says, you can enter a song in 2 minutes. You choose amoungst 14 different styles of accomp. I've used the Jazz swing style primarily, and I can't say enough good things about it. You choose key, tempo and channel assignments also. Many, nice tunes are included on the disk. $49. (can you believe it?) 416 - 528 - 2180 or 2368 Stew Lindenberger mhuxo!love (201-582-4734 occasionally) ================================================================== >From tjt Tue Jan 9 15:50 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: band-in-a-box > A brief rave over a newly released product called "Band-in-a-Box" > ... > $49. (can you believe it?) 416 - 528 - 2180 or 2368 What computer? Does it require a MIDI interface? What is the format of the output? Can the input be provided from a file (ie. can it be run in batch mode)? ...Tim... ================================================================== >From uucp Tue Jan 9 17:58 EST 1990 >From mtqua!dad Tue Jan 9 17:57 EST 1990 remote from att From: mtqua!dad (D. Decourcelle +1 201 957 3631) To: att!twitch!midi Subject: re: Band-in-a-Box What PC does this "Band-in-a-Box" run on? ================================================================== >From uucp Fri Jan 12 12:14 EST 1990 >From love Fri Jan 12 12:13 EST 1990 remote from mhuxo .. .. a brief responce to the follow-up questions on Band-in-a-Box: .. .. I should have provided a few more details: .. .. it runs on PC's (mine is an AT clone) .. requires a MIDI interface (i.e., MPU-401) .. stores chord patterns as songs on disk (generates the MIDI .. data just prior to sending it out) the storage is small/song .. (400 songs/360Kfloppy) comes w/ 50 pre-entered songs .. can generate standard midi file as output! .. predefined for several popular drum machines, easy to reconfigure .. for special cases .. _______________________________________________________________________________ Stew Lindenberger AT&T Bell Labs Murray Hill NJ 201-582-4734 mhuxo!love ================================================================== >From tjt Fri Jan 12 14:16 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: band-in-a-box > >From love Fri Jan 12 12:13 EST 1990 remote from mhuxo > .. stores chord patterns as songs on disk (generates the MIDI > .. data just prior to sending it out) the storage is small/song > .. (400 songs/360Kfloppy) comes w/ 50 pre-entered songs > .. can generate standard midi file as output! I've always thought it would be neat to set up an "algorithmic music server" - you send it mail with some sort of input, and it sends back a piece of music generated from it. Sounds like this program could be used in that mode (with a dos-under-unix package). I'm not sure the author of the program would be too thrilled about that kind of setup, if he/she's trying to make money off it. Doesn't seem obviously illegal, though. ...Tim... ================================================================== >From uucp Tue Jan 16 10:32 EST 1990 >From odi.com!dlw Mon Jan 15 17:49:44 EST 1990 remote from att Received: from odi.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP id AA09851; Mon, 15 Jan 90 18:05:46 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from valens.odi.com by odi.com (4.0/SMI-4.0/ODI-4) id AA08147; Mon, 15 Jan 90 17:49:44 EST Received: by valens.odi.com (4.0/SMI-4.0/ODI-C2) id AA03083; Mon, 15 Jan 90 17:49:44 EST Date: Mon, 15 Jan 90 17:49:44 EST From: dlw@odi.com Message-Id: <9001152249.AA03083@valens.odi.com> To: midi@twitch.att.com Subject: Band-In-A-Box Reply-To: dlw@odi.com There was some mail recently about a product called Band-In-A-Box(tm), and several of us were wondering about the details. I found an ad for this product, and here are the basic facts: It requires an IBM PC compatible with 512K and an MPU-401-compatible interface. It costs $49 + $3.50 for shipping. It's from PG Music, Suite 111-266 Elmwood Ave, Buffalo, NY 14222 For an audio demo, call 1-416-528-2180 For a person, call 1-416-528-2368 "Guaranteed to be compatible with your equipment or your money back" The idea is that you type in the chords (prevailing harmonies) for your song (using simple ascii characters), and choose a style (e.g. an algorithm), of which they provide at least a dozen. It composes an accompaniment, including drums, and plays it. They also provide you with 50 songs, and offer to sell more for $30 (it doesn't say how many or which). I called up the demo number, hoping for some inexpensive entertainment. I didn't find it all that entertaining, although that's not to say that the product doesn't do what it says it does. I am not at all familiar with the current state of the art in accompaniment algorithms; I notice that many synthesizers have such things built-in, and I could not tell you how this one compares to those. The demo is unfortunately very short and only demonstrates two of the styles; I feel that a longer demo would have given me a much better sense of what the product does. Anyway, I'm not expressing any judgement at all; just thought I'd pass along the info to anyone who's interested. ================================================================== >From uucp Mon Jan 22 00:26 EST 1990 >From attcan!cbur01!pb!root Sun Jan 21 05:23 EST 1990 remote from att Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3222 A Mini Review for " BAND - IN - A - BOX " After seeing the MMML talk about this software, I gave PG Music a phone call.The author of "Band-in-a-Box" is living in the Hamilton, Ontario area , just outside of town in Dundas,Ontario. Peter Gannon was deighted to demonstratehis program for me. Peter is a fine musician as well as programmer. The program could help anyone who aspires to learn standard songs by using a different approach to "midi/music" than traditional sequencers. Two methods are used. One method is to allow the user to enter chords into a spread sheet and then pick a musical style that you might want for a percussion setup (drum patterns for different styles ) and bass patterns for the chords to accompany your chords. Peter is a jazz musician and this is evident when you see his list of valid chords for Band-in-a-Box". Approximately 122 chords in the key of C. Alternate root chords are possible increasing the chord varieties even further. The bass lines that came from what I entered as my song, in chords, was quite good. There is no method of recording your solos yet but a planned update will have more sequencer capabilities. After listening to some of the pop tunes it reminded me of hearing a "Holiday Inn" type of music group play their rendition of the "standards". All the songs are good and the drum parts were fine. The second method is to play the melodies yourself with "Band-in-a-Box" being used to play the drums (with embellishments ,turnarounds and quite a few drum instruments to chose from ) and bass lines for a variety of songs ranging from top 40 - rock (several types) - latin types - country - blues (shuffle or even eights) - waltz - ethnic (polka) . By picking a style, a bass part is "compiled " for use that will work with the chords that have been typed onto the spread sheet. Songs can be controlled by various parameters: -Style type (1 - 14) -Tempo (10 - 500 beats per minute) -Key of song (the software will transpose song/chords to the new key!) -Loop (play continuously) -Chorus Begin (Bar number) -Middle Choruses -Vary middle Style (yes/no) -Tag Exists (yes/no) -Block copy paste of sections -Songs can be saved as Standard Midi File Updates planned are: -more styles ,ie: reggae,dance/funk -more setting options -startup patch changes for bass/piano and drums -embellishment on/off -automatic improvisation -user defined styles -forms upto 255 bars -on board sequencer -other instruments(strings/horns) Years ago I bought some records for learning jazz bass,they had the drum and piano parts recorded only. The music student could then add the bass pattern live with the record playing back. This kind of thing can be quickly accomplished. Or you may find yourself just interested in playing your keyboard and need to have a decent drum pattern with chorus(es) and a bass pattern automatically worked out for your chords! It was fun to build a song in about two minutes in one style and then change the style from the menu and hear your song now in a different style! paul balogh UUCP sis!pb!paul Hamilton,Ontario AT&T att!attcan!cbur01!pb!paul ================================================================== >From swso01!ejk Mon Aug 13 14:57 CDT 1990 POSTmark: kotowski,e j xd3053020 sw00000 sww3328 swso01!ejk Date: Mon Aug 13 14:57:00 1990 To:twitch!midi, Subject: Band-in-a-box I just received version 3.0 of Band-in-a-Box. (IBM version but also available for the Mac and Atari St). What a blast! I recall someone saying the jazz accompaniment grooves are great. They are! The new "reggae" style is also a lot of fun. Version 3.0 enhancements include: 1. 10 additional styles (total now 24) 2. increased bar limit from 64 bars to 255 bars 3. improved file storage 4. pull down menus The 10 additional styles are: 1. Milly Pop 2. Funk 3. Jazz Waltz 4. Rhumba 5. Cha Cha 6. Bouncy 12/8 7. Irish 8. Pop Ballas 12/8 9. Country 12/8 10. Reggae It's a great package for $59.00 + 3.50 for handling. I use it to generate the bass and keyboard parts so I can practice drums with. I record the sequences it generates to an Alesis MMT8 sequencer to play back in the basement where the drums are. The drum parts it generates are nice also. Ed Kotowski ================================================================== >From clyde!bellcore!nvuxg!smm1 Tue Aug 21 16:18:04 1990 Received: by clyde.ATT.COM (smail2.6) id AA21577; 21 Aug 90 16:18:04 EDT (Tue) Received: by bellcore.bellcore.com (5.61/1.34) id AA04257; Tue, 21 Aug 90 15:10:11 -0400 Message-Id: <9008211910.AA04257@bellcore.bellcore.com> From: bellcore!nvuxg!smm1 (michelson) To: clyde!twitch!midi@!bellcore.UUCP Date: 21 Aug 1990 15:09 EDT Subject: Band in a Box Does band-in-a-box utilize (or need) a Mouse, on the IBM PC? It sounds like a fun little package, and I wonder if I have the necessary hardware. Steve Michelson ========================================================================== >From tjt Tue Aug 28 11:45 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: re: Band in a Box > From: bellcore!nvuxg!smm1 (michelson) > Subject: Band in a Box > Does band-in-a-box utilize (or need) a Mouse, on the IBM PC? It sounds > like a fun little package, and I wonder if I have the necessary hardware. I just ordered and got it a few days ago. It doesn't need (or use) a mouse. It also doesn't absolutely require an MPU-compatible interface - if it doesn't find one, it will run normally and you can generate Standard MIDI Files. I've been able to run it under Simul-Task (aka VPIX) on the 6386, which means it can run under UNIX without having to boot DOS (although it can't talk to the MPU interface under Simul-Task). It normally requires that you interact through menus and function keys, however I've been able to use a 'keyfake' program (which simulates keypresses) under DOS to arrange it so that I can run it in a kind of 'batch' mode. This makes it even more convenient for running from UNIX. (It's not completely seamless, though - seems to take forever to generate MIDI files, and sometimes hangs until I press a key on another terminal - all probably due to Simul-Task strangeness.) Enough technical details. I've only played a few songs so far (I'm in the processing of generating Standard MIDI Files for all of its songs), but I like the program a lot, both for the kind of output it generates and for the 500-song fake book on disk that comes with it. It generates bass/piano/drum parts (no melody) - you could take something like this and immediately be a one-person lounge act, no problem. A great value for the money, I think. Highly recommended if you like playing and improvising on 'standards'. Interesting side note: one of the MMML members (Paul Balogh) in Canada knows Peter Gannon, the author of Band-in-a-Box. Peter is an MD as well as a good musician. ...Tim... ================================================================== >From tjt Tue Aug 28 16:06 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Band-in-a-box fake book For those interested, the complete list of (>500) songs contained in the Band-in-a-Box fake book is available in the MMML archive. The file name is "bandinbox.list". ...Tim... ================================================================== >From keyhole!tjt Wed Aug 29 19:57 EDT 1990 To: twitch!midi Subject: Band-in-a-Box examples A new file in the MMML archives: bandinabox.mid - a collection of Standard MIDI Files that demonstrates the kind of output that the Band-in-a-Box software produces. The file is a uuencoded 'arc'hive. The songs are: Autumn Leaves Here There and Everywhere Girl from Ipanema Johnny Be Good Kansas City Blues Moon River Penny Lane Yellow Rose of Texas ========================================================= >From tjt Thu Aug 30 10:39 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: Band in a Box Date: Thu, 30 Aug 90 10:20:10 -0400 From: Yann le Cun Tim says > Interesting side note: one of the MMML members (Paul Balogh) in Canada > knows Peter Gannon, the author of Band-in-a-Box. Someone should convince Peter Gannon to port Band-in-a-Box to the Amiga. I just called PG Music, and the person told me that they were "concentrating on the Atari, Mac and IBM", and that they were "too busy completing Band-in-a-Box V.4". She said that she has received "many calls from Amiga users", but that they were "not planning to port BiaB to the Amiga.......well, maybe next year". -- Yann Le Cun neural!yann ================================================================== >From att!saqqara.cis.ohio-state.edu!david!david Sat Sep 1 14:43:41 1990 Received: by cis.ohio-state.edu (smail2.5) id AA13353; 1 Sep 90 14:43:41 EDT (Sat) Received: by david.UUCP (smail3.0) id AA01657; 1 Sep 90 14:44:05 EDT (Sat) To: osu-cis!att!twitch!midi Subject: Re: bandinabox.mid Message-Id: <9009011444.AA01657@david.UUCP> Date: 1 Sep 90 14:44:05 EDT (Sat) From: david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth) Well, since I had some time this morning I download the midi files and gave them a shot. The MT32 drum layout was the same for the Roland S-330 so it was no problem to get the thing going. They sounded like what I expected which was pretty much bland. There was not much of a difference between the arrangements. I imagine it does have it's applications. Depending on the kinds of composition and arranging methods it does use it might make a useful learning tool. David ================================================================== >From mhuxo!love Thu Sep 20 16:05 EDT 1990 .. .. .. fellow MIDIots... .. .. The October '90 issue of ELECTRONIC MUSICIAN has a review .. article on Band-in-a-Box (tm), written by yours truly. .. .. pp91. .. .. b# .. ================================================================== >From att!bellcore!nvuxg!smm1 Mon Sep 24 08:50:54 1990 Received: by bellcore.bellcore.com (5.61/1.34) id AA01409; Mon, 24 Sep 90 08:50:54 -0400 Message-Id: <9009241250.AA01409@bellcore.bellcore.com> From: bellcore!nvuxg!smm1 (michelson) To: att!twitch!midi@!bellcore.UUCP Date: 24 Sep 1990 8:44 EDT Subject: Standard MIDI files and Cakewalk I've recently purchased Band-In-A-Box, and have encountered the following difficulty, but before I explain the problem I need to tell you that I have Cakewalk 2.0 and the conversion utility that converts from Standard MIDI files to cakewalk files. After generating a "Standard Midi File" from Band-in-a-box, I used the conversion utility to create an input file for Cakewalk. In one case, this worked fine. In another case, the conversion did not entirely work - the drum track did not get converted, and cakewalk comes up with a bunch of question marks for each event type in the drum track. Has anybody else had problems with the conversion program I'm mentioning? If so, have you figured out a solution? If not, should I simply upgrade to Cakewalk 3.0, or is there something wrong with Band-in-a-box? Steve Michelson smm ================================================================== >From tjt Mon Sep 24 14:31 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: Band in a Box and Personal Composer >From mvuxn!mvgpl!mvcrg Mon Sep 24 13:46 EDT 1990 From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904) Nat and I have had a bit of trouble with Band in a Box, some of which seems to have been resolved, some not yet. 1) After changing channel assignments in BBox, the MPU401 Clone by MusicQuest was freaked out. This turned out to be a problem in the clone, and MusicQuest sent us a replacement programmed chip. This fixed the problem. 2) Some Std. MIDI files written by BBox ffreaked out Personal Composer (resulting in a confused system and the need for a reboot). We've reported this to PC and will shortly (if they want them) send copies of the files written to PC first and then, if PC is OK, to BBox. More on this later. Otherwise we're pretty pleased with the pair working together. Really speeds things up - particularly the drum programming. We can now spend time making the pieces interesting, rather than spending hours simply entering them. - Topher Gayle x2904 mvcrg@mvgpl.att.com ================================================================== >From keyhole!tjt Wed Oct 24 19:57 EDT 1990 To: twitch!midi Subject: new MMML archive file - bandinbox.sort New file in the MMML archive: bandinbox.sort - Bill Wetzel contributes a list of the songs that are included in the Band-in-a-Box software's "fake book". Includes 3 different sortings - by filename, song title, and style. =================================================================== >From mtqub!wrw Thu Nov 8 16:45:08 1990 FROM: w.r.wetzel TO: twitch!midi DATE: 8 Nov 1990 16:45 EST SUBJECT: Rhythm Band-in-a-box has tickled my curiosity regarding rhythm and so I have a few real basic questions for this astute group. 1) What is rhythm? Now I know that a steady rim shot, certainly is, I think a bass guitar probably mostly is, but as you get away from the obvious when does the sound cease to be rhythm? For example, is the energy envelope of a conventional singer (not do-op sp?), or keyboard melody included in rhythm? 2) Is there a 'standard' or 'good' reference that catalogs lots and lots of rhythm patterns, i.e. timing and voicing? 3) Has any of this group worked with or considered abstract representations for rhythm such as fourrier or walsch transforms. In a walsch transform a square wave is used instead of a sine as the elementary building block. I don't know much about it but have an intuitive notion that it might be useful for expressing rhythm. 4) Has anyone seen or had experience with 'drum machine' type of programs. I know of none, but it seems an obvious application...A program that would emit note on/off messages to control drum voices in a drum box or sample player. Thanks, Bill Wetzel ================================================================== >From mvgpl!mvcrg Fri Nov 9 11:59 EST 1990 From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904) To: twitch!midi Subject: I got rhythm A wordy response to Bill Wetzel: > 1) What is rhythm? Yeeow! The boy don't ask easy questions! Well, I won't pretend to be able to explain the psych-physiological phenomenon of rhythm perception, BUT I think it's safe to say that whatever it is in music that sets your toe to tapping is rhythm. Now, in a lot of modern Western popular music, drums, bass, piano and guitar are the usual rhythm producers, but the club is by no means exclusive. Listen to a bluegrass band, and you'll hear the pulse being pushed by guitar, bass and mandolin, much of the time. In orchestral music, the pulse (when it's pronounced, which is often) can be defined by any combinations of the instruments. One important distinction within the concept of rhythm is the difference between the beat and the harmonic rhythm. A drummer has two (at least) tasks: define the beat & tempo, and outline the dramatic changes. Consider the guitar/piano/bass rolls in a pop band, now: they are outlining chords (either explicitly or otherwise), and the rate of change of the chords they play implies a rhythm. This rhythm is the harmonic rhythm of a piece. In an orchestra, violins, woodwinds, or horns may propell the harmonic rhythm. (Or just about any combination of instruments). Rhythm can be implied by a melody without being actually beat out by any instrument at all. If you're walking along, whistling a tune, your legs will keep the beat for you. If you then stop walking, you can keep that rhythm going easily. But try to begin walking at a different pace while you keep whistling at the original beat. Not easy (but possible; this is one illustration of polyrhythms, which is not usually very easy for Western musicians and listeners). I think this illustrates how the rhythm implied by the melody of your whistling can be quite strong. It is also interesting to examine situations where rhythm is NOT implied. Solo improvisations in jazz and in Middle-eastern music often weave in and out of rythmic patterns. Good dancers can usually understand the feeling implied by the non-rhythmic sections and improvise or compose appropriately, which I personally find to be amazing. Some composers have explored multirhythmic music and the result is usually hard for the Western ear to pick up. An important part of rhythm performance is FEEL, which is a pretty hard thing to intellectualize. In simple terms, it refers to the art of playing OFF of the beat, either ahead of it or behind it. Much jazz excersizes the technique. Some drum machines have a "swing" setting which kind-of accomplishes the effect. The problem with algorithmic swing is that it doesn't understand the melody, the harmonic progression of the music, or even the lyrics (if any) and all of these can be objects of particular swing effects. Also, overuse of off-beat percussion can be detrimental to a performance. I keep referring to the effects on the Western ear, and this is why: in several of the world's musics, polyrhythms and odd meters are commonplace. Thus little kids in Greece grow up with 9/8 time (expressed as 4.5 beats per measure), 9/4 time (expressed as a measure of 4/4 + a measure of 5/4), 5/4 time, 7/4 time, 6/8 time, 3/4 time, and of course 4/4 and 2/4. (Indian classical music goes even further - fortunately for MMML readers, I don't know anything about it except that a good tabla player is approximately equivalent to Einstein in my opinion.) Since I grew up here in the US listening mostly to 4/4, 3/4, 6/8, 2/4 music, it took me quite a while to begin to understand the odd meters and polyrhythms in the Middle-eastern music idioms. Frankly, the study of these musics would be a lifetime effort by a non-genious such as myself; thus my own understanding is not too deep... This last was way too long. I'll shorten this next part: > 2) Is there a 'standard' or 'good' reference that catalogs lots and lots > of rhythm patterns, i.e. timing and voicing? > > 4) Has anyone seen or had experience with 'drum machine' type of programs. I > know of none, but it seems an obvious application...A program that would > emit note on/off messages to control drum voices in a drum box or > sample player. Well, I don't know if there's a single standard. I suspect you'll have to look around, but if you're aiming to program MIDI drum patterns, and you can read trap set tablature, I'd recommend you go to a drum shop and ask there. I too have begun to use Band-in-a-Box. Our application has been to use the program to reduce the huge amount of time required to manually input drum, bass, and piano parts. We typically let BIAB have a go at a song, then edit the result to our liking. - Topher Gayle x2904 mvcrg@mvgpl.att.com ================================================================== >From mvgpl!mvcrg Mon Nov 12 15:51 EST 1990 From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904) To: twitch!midi Subject: sound off It should be somewhat obvious that the importance of the duration of a note depands on its decay. If a guitar string is plucked, it decays in a finite and rather short amount of time. If a violin is bowed, the note lasts until the bow is stopped. Thus the importance of the ending time of the violin note is of more concern than the ending point of the guitar note (unless you want a muted effect) and likewise the guitar note end point will be of more concern than the end point of a drum hit. Simply because of decay. A lot of synth sounds seem to have organ-like sustain-as-long-as-you-hold-the-button characteristics, so note-off would be very important there. Band-in-a-box is a very user-freiendly, relatively cheap (~$60) program which I've got running on an AT&T 6300+ (IBM compatible) and which basically invents piano, bass, and drum tracks (rhythm tracks... ) given a series of chord changes (such as what you might find in a fake-book) and a selection of styles. There are a few interesting variations within the styles that can be specified, and the songs which can be entered must not be very complex (you can forget about entering any Zappa, or greek zembekiko music), but the program seems to generate pretty passable, very generic rhythm sections. It plays directly to your synth and drum machine, or writes a standard MIDI file for editing by some other sequencer (which is what I like to do). - Topher Gayle x2904 mvcrg@mvgpl.att.com